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and under this president he's run up $7 trillion in deficits. he's averaged a deficit of 9% of gdp. george bush was 2% to 3% of gdp. so, you know, i think the discussion is is it really a tax problem or a tax and a spending problem? if we agree it is spending, let's start to talk about some of the spending. >> where will the compromise come, though? is there room to compromise on the tax percentage, or if you do the sliding scale and move it from the 250,000 benchmark to 500,000 income earnings benchmark. >> i think the discussion the speaker advanced which matches what the president talked about in terms of his campaign of $800 billion in new revenues, getting there through less deductions is on the table. at this point we want to see, mr. president you show us yours and we'll show us ours. these negotiations go step by step closer and closer. i do agree with an early panelist that said the president probably wants to be a little bit freer from his base and so does the speaker to some degree. we are very interested in the spending cuts, and i can tell you that if the president give
and under this president he's run up $7 trillion in deficits. he's averaged a deficit of 9% of gdp. george bush was 2% to 3% of gdp. so, you know, i think the discussion is is it really a tax problem or a tax and a spending problem? if we agree it is spending, let's start to talk about some of the spending. >> where will the compromise come, though? is there room to compromise on the tax percentage, or if you do the sliding scale and move it from the 250,000 benchmark to 500,000 income...
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. >> what the president has said is we need $1.6 trillion as part of an overall deficit reduction plan, because if you don't get those additional revenues, but you also try and reduce the deficit, you end up whacking everybody else much harder. and so, it's really important to have that revenue number as high as possible. >> sure. >> look, the president's already been clear, ed. on cuts, he will continue to implement over the next ten years over $1 trillion in cuts that he agreed to as part of the budget control act, 100% cuts. and at the time, he said we've got to come back and do revenue. he "life & style weeklalso call billion in cuts and laid out exactly what those should be. >> catch "the ed show" here at 8:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc, the place for politics. >>> well, new jersey governor chris christie is making a personal plea for federal disaster aid in the wake of hurricane sandy. the republican governor paid an unannounced visit to the white house to ask the president for $83 billion in aid for new jersey, new york and connecticut. he also met with members of congress. it was th
. >> what the president has said is we need $1.6 trillion as part of an overall deficit reduction plan, because if you don't get those additional revenues, but you also try and reduce the deficit, you end up whacking everybody else much harder. and so, it's really important to have that revenue number as high as possible. >> sure. >> look, the president's already been clear, ed. on cuts, he will continue to implement over the next ten years over $1 trillion in cuts that he...
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as i've indicated, the only way to get the kind of revenue for a balanced deficit reduction plan is to make sure that we're also modestly increasing rates for people who can afford it. folks like me. just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. >> the concerted effort from the white house is very clear. here's white house press secretary jay carney. >> what will produce a deal is an acknowledgement by republicans, republican leaders, that rates on the top 2%, the wealthiest americans, have to rise. there is no deal without that acknowledgement, and without a concrete, mathematically sound proposal -- >> but speaker boehner still insists he can get the revenue without raising rates? >> now, the revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes, and have the same people pay more of their money to the federal government without raising tax rates, which we believe will harm our economy. >> some conservatives just can't stand hear
as i've indicated, the only way to get the kind of revenue for a balanced deficit reduction plan is to make sure that we're also modestly increasing rates for people who can afford it. folks like me. just to be clear, i'm not going to sign any package that somehow prevents the top rate from going up for folks at the top 2%. >> the concerted effort from the white house is very clear. here's white house press secretary jay carney. >> what will produce a deal is an acknowledgement by...
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social security didn't contribute to the deficits and debt. i don't think there will be any appetite whatsoever for touching social security. but those points i think democrats are quite unified on. the area where i think there is room for negotiation and compromise is, the rates are going to go up. i think we all recognize that. will the rates go up completely? are there other ways where they can come up somewhat short of that but make up the revenues by reducing deductions from higher income families? >> so the deal that we're talking about is halfway between the current rate and the former rate? >> well, i wouldn't say halfway. but i would say, as long as you can get to the revenues, if you can increase the rates and reduce the deductions for upper income households, you can get to the same dollar number and i think there's a willingness to entertain that. it does tend to complicate the tax code. the simplest way is simply to raise the tax rates up to the clinton levels and, you know, we do have a strong interest in simplifying the tax code
social security didn't contribute to the deficits and debt. i don't think there will be any appetite whatsoever for touching social security. but those points i think democrats are quite unified on. the area where i think there is room for negotiation and compromise is, the rates are going to go up. i think we all recognize that. will the rates go up completely? are there other ways where they can come up somewhat short of that but make up the revenues by reducing deductions from higher income...
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it makes the deficit better. it would go a long way toward curing the deficit, but the deficit isn't the immediate problem for most people, the weak economy is. >> i agree. >> and if we dive off the fiscal cliff, the economy could get much weaker. that's -- >> by the way -- >> -- millions of americans. it's a problem for barack obama. >> just to back you up, i really think the great thing is the economy is just starting to lift up a. the unemployment rate is really starting to come down. we're getting good job production. thank you so much, ladies, for coming on tonight. thanks for the sharp thinking we got tonight. >>> up next, if you can't win by the rules, change then. that's what republicans are trying to do in pennsylvania. they don't like the lerer toal college because it didn't work for them. come back for the place for politics. derate alzheimer's, you'll also care about our new offer. you get access to nurses who can help with your questions. and your loved one can get exelon patch free for 30 days. if t
it makes the deficit better. it would go a long way toward curing the deficit, but the deficit isn't the immediate problem for most people, the weak economy is. >> i agree. >> and if we dive off the fiscal cliff, the economy could get much weaker. that's -- >> by the way -- >> -- millions of americans. it's a problem for barack obama. >> just to back you up, i really think the great thing is the economy is just starting to lift up a. the unemployment rate is really...
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deficit and on the fiscal cliff negotiations. this is where the rubber meets the road. this is where it's actually happening at the state level. at the local level. this is where all of that money that was released into the political system by citizens united is actually now paying off. >> yeah, and that is what's frightening nationwide because citizen's united opens the door everywhere. and we're seeing them searching for a model on how to do this. that is why even the detroit free press, in an editorial, and, again, this is a paper that had endorsed governor snyder two years ago. it says the right to work champions, the determination to emasculate once and for all the democratic parties most reliable source of financial and organizational support. now, senator, let me say this to you. if they can get away with it in michigan, michigan has 671,000 union members, 17.5% of the work force, fifth highest in the nation. if they can get away with it in michigan, they feel they can just steam roll all over the country. >> i think every
deficit and on the fiscal cliff negotiations. this is where the rubber meets the road. this is where it's actually happening at the state level. at the local level. this is where all of that money that was released into the political system by citizens united is actually now paying off. >> yeah, and that is what's frightening nationwide because citizen's united opens the door everywhere. and we're seeing them searching for a model on how to do this. that is why even the detroit free...
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as much and the democrats talking about reducing the deficit. not only will the market go down but we'll have a recession. the market will go crazy on the upside. we will have dealt with the biggest uncertainty, not taxes, the deficit. >> going over the cliff, governor won't get that done because then you have the debt ceiling. there's other provisions you have to deal with. it will not get that done. it will cause further issues that will be resolved later on. >> only if the debt ceiling gets carved into it. one is not linked to the other. >> we can be talking about one not linked to the other. if we go over the cliff, we have to reveal the debt ceiling. at that point and time, the question about the debt ceiling is that much more important. it will have to be raised. as a republican, a proud republican, i am willing to sit here and say we probably need to give some on taxes. there's no question about it. this president also needs to give and show real leadership. if he doesn't, if he wants to punish the wealthy or those in the top 1% and say h
as much and the democrats talking about reducing the deficit. not only will the market go down but we'll have a recession. the market will go crazy on the upside. we will have dealt with the biggest uncertainty, not taxes, the deficit. >> going over the cliff, governor won't get that done because then you have the debt ceiling. there's other provisions you have to deal with. it will not get that done. it will cause further issues that will be resolved later on. >> only if the debt...
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we won't be able to achieve a significant balanced approach to the deficit. it does have some revenue in it, even though it's not from tax increases. so what does this opening offer say about where we are in these negotiations? >> well, it seems very difficult to imagine that we're going to be getting to a deal that will handle everything that needs to be addressed before the end of the year. i think the first main thing that needs to be addressed is the question of the tax cuts expiring. and for the obama administration, the question is, is it in their interest to trade tax cuts for the wealthy? increase for the wealthy for raising the age for eligibility for medicare, for example. i'm not sure that that's a trade that they are eager to make immediately. >> let me show you the side by side comparison. the president wants $1.6 trillion in revenue and republicans want to cap the same deductions for the rich but republicans want to change the age to 67 and change the way they calculate social security payments. i wonder, though, when we look at these numbers, a
we won't be able to achieve a significant balanced approach to the deficit. it does have some revenue in it, even though it's not from tax increases. so what does this opening offer say about where we are in these negotiations? >> well, it seems very difficult to imagine that we're going to be getting to a deal that will handle everything that needs to be addressed before the end of the year. i think the first main thing that needs to be addressed is the question of the tax cuts expiring....
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we need more problem solvers that are willing to come together like the deficit and job crisis that we continue to want to tackle. so i think you do see him saying, hey, i have this idea. we're going to take it by the storm. it didn't work. the president is still standing and moving forward. and i think there's some in his party who are eager to try to get a balanced approach and prevent us from going off this cliff which would be a very serious thing and we're right up against it. >> don't they have, joe, a real civil war going on in the republican party when you have on one hand sarah palin open fending the tea party's role saying on facebook, for all this new talk about how the gop needs a populous movement, it would do them good to remember they already have them. it's called a tea party movement and it won for them the majority they now enjoy in the house. this is palin. but on the other side, the "new york times" says today that boehner has consolidated his grip on republicans in the house. the times says many house republicans appear to view mr. boehner with the same sort of res
we need more problem solvers that are willing to come together like the deficit and job crisis that we continue to want to tackle. so i think you do see him saying, hey, i have this idea. we're going to take it by the storm. it didn't work. the president is still standing and moving forward. and i think there's some in his party who are eager to try to get a balanced approach and prevent us from going off this cliff which would be a very serious thing and we're right up against it. >>...
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we are facing huge deficits and a looming fiscal cliff. i want to come out and say this and help the president get this? >> i use the word patriotism. when i was a kid i grew up in two u.s. internment camps. in the swamps of arkansas. we lived in california. >> you were hauled out there. >> to arkansas and later transferred to another one in northern california. but we were there because we happened to look like the people that bombed pearl harbor. a year into it the government realized there was a wartime manpower shortage. and when the military was opened up. thousands of young japanese americans went to fight for this country. they were put into a segregated unit and fought on the bloody battlefields in europe. and came back the most decorated and exercised something that was very important. they did it for their family certainly, but for the greater good because they loved america. they sacrificed themselves and many many perished on those fields and that is the kind of situation we are faced with now and those republicans can't seem t
we are facing huge deficits and a looming fiscal cliff. i want to come out and say this and help the president get this? >> i use the word patriotism. when i was a kid i grew up in two u.s. internment camps. in the swamps of arkansas. we lived in california. >> you were hauled out there. >> to arkansas and later transferred to another one in northern california. but we were there because we happened to look like the people that bombed pearl harbor. a year into it the...
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so security trust fund doesn't have anything to do with the debt and deficit. but the idea that we're going to simply kick the can on that and have across the board social security cuts, you know, 15 years from now because we didn't step up responsibly i think does a great disservice to those who expected to have those benefits when they reach retirement age. >> senator mark warner, thank you for your time today. >> thank you, richard. >>> let's bring in our political power panel, melinda, democratic strategist morris reed. let's start with you hogan. i want to start with this. senator harry reid used an interesting analogy on the floor to describe the current state of the republican party. listen to this first. >> he's got a problem. he has three quarter backs, sanchez, he's got tim tebow, a guy by the name of mcilroy. he can't describe who is going to be the quarterback. that's the same problem that the republicans are having. romney is there but he's in the background. who is the quarterback, mr. president. >> hogan, what do you think? who's the quarterback?
so security trust fund doesn't have anything to do with the debt and deficit. but the idea that we're going to simply kick the can on that and have across the board social security cuts, you know, 15 years from now because we didn't step up responsibly i think does a great disservice to those who expected to have those benefits when they reach retirement age. >> senator mark warner, thank you for your time today. >> thank you, richard. >>> let's bring in our political power...
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if we have a budget deficit at all, it is only fair. and you don't have to be -- again you don't have to be a republican, you can be a common sense republican to understand that this requires that the bush tax cuts not be extended for the richest 2%. it is finally getting through. and i think that, again, as richard said, you can be as clever as you want. you can make all kinds of pretensions. you can abstain, you can do whatever you want to do. this is going through. >> when we talk about abstentions and kibuki theater, that's obviously small ball. but the fact that the president and the vice president are saying we are not going to allow congress to have the power to fight another war over the debt ceiling. >> yeah. >> that to me is a real line in the sand. >> it is. >> republicans are not going to give that up without serious concessions from the democrats. what do you make of it? >> there are going to be spending cuts in this deal, right. this isn't just about tax cuts for the super wealthy. there will be spending cuts. this is wher
if we have a budget deficit at all, it is only fair. and you don't have to be -- again you don't have to be a republican, you can be a common sense republican to understand that this requires that the bush tax cuts not be extended for the richest 2%. it is finally getting through. and i think that, again, as richard said, you can be as clever as you want. you can make all kinds of pretensions. you can abstain, you can do whatever you want to do. this is going through. >> when we talk...
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the fact is that social security doesn't add one penny to the deficit or the debt. let's get the facts straight on this. we've been looking at these entitlements, scrutinizing them. we've had bipartisan changes to social security to make it sustainable. we can do that again. don't blame social security and medicare for our problems. i would say a major part of the problem is health care expenses, and i think the affordable health care bill attacked that issue particularly. if we don't lower health care costs, we are not going to get the budget in balance regardless of what we do. >> we have below you daishg you can't see it. a new poll was taken. a majority didn't want to see cuts in medicaid and didn't want the eligibility age increase for medicare. >> you're absolutely right. you put more burden on the states. right now the states are struggling to keep their head above water as it is. if you put that burden on the states, then they are going to move accordingly to the towns and their taxpayers in that particular state. in my state of new jersey, we pay an exorbit
the fact is that social security doesn't add one penny to the deficit or the debt. let's get the facts straight on this. we've been looking at these entitlements, scrutinizing them. we've had bipartisan changes to social security to make it sustainable. we can do that again. don't blame social security and medicare for our problems. i would say a major part of the problem is health care expenses, and i think the affordable health care bill attacked that issue particularly. if we don't lower...
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the tax rates, total money that that comes in is just a small drop in the bucket so the size of the deficit from last year alone. it's less than 10% of what we're overspending. we now have 16 trillion in debt on the backs of our children and grand children. that is the biggest threat to our national security and nation's future. >> quickly, some republicans have whispered privately, some not privately, they believe president obama, the white house, congressional democrats, want to go over the fiscal cliff because they believe that it is more politically advantageous for them to do so. is that a sentiment you agree with or not? >> i believe that the president and the democrats see a political victory at the bottom of the fiscal cliff. i see financial problems for our country at the bottom of the fiscal cliff with unemployment over 9%, and another recession. i think -- i want to find a solution working with people on both sides of the aisle but when you have howard dean, the former chairman of the democratic national committee, you have patty murray, who ran the democratic senatorial committe
the tax rates, total money that that comes in is just a small drop in the bucket so the size of the deficit from last year alone. it's less than 10% of what we're overspending. we now have 16 trillion in debt on the backs of our children and grand children. that is the biggest threat to our national security and nation's future. >> quickly, some republicans have whispered privately, some not privately, they believe president obama, the white house, congressional democrats, want to go over...
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it is not -- it shouldn't even be discussed in the deficit because it doesn't add to the deficit. medicare we have in the obama care we put into reform. i mean, the republicans just finished telling us that it was terrible that we cut $716 billion out of medicare, and that was terrible. now they want to add a lot more cuts. i think that the cuts we made in medicare were enough. they should not impact beneficiaries. and we shouldn't do anything that will at this point. those cuts may very well over a long period of time put medicare on a sustainable basis. we shouldn't do anything further to medicare until whether we see that works out. >> but you acknowledge a deal is not likely to get done without some reforms to entitlements. >> i do not acknowledge that and if a deal doesn't get done, it doesn't get done. >> you're prepared to go over the cliff as well? >> absolutely. >> it sounds -- >> it's not a cliff, by the way. and understand this. people keep talking about the republicans deliberately created this emergency. in order to blackmail the country. and the emergency here, the c
it is not -- it shouldn't even be discussed in the deficit because it doesn't add to the deficit. medicare we have in the obama care we put into reform. i mean, the republicans just finished telling us that it was terrible that we cut $716 billion out of medicare, and that was terrible. now they want to add a lot more cuts. i think that the cuts we made in medicare were enough. they should not impact beneficiaries. and we shouldn't do anything that will at this point. those cuts may very well...
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or is it about lessening the deficit? because it doesn't really do a whole lot for the debt or deficit over ten years. >> well, it's about fairness, but it's also about what are the better options? given that the wealthy are really skating by these days. and so how do you collect more revenue from them? and all the various ideas about, well, you cap this deduction, and cap that deduction. there are not only political constituencies that will fight tooth and claw on every deducti deduction, there are some reasons, fairly good reasons why you would want to think twice. you know, are you going to go after home mortgage deduction at a time when the housing industry is trying to get its feet? are you going to go after the exemption on taxation for health insurance? i mean, that's the biggest one, actually. that's like $250 billion a year. but i don't think anybody wants to dive back into that at this point. so, you know, how else are you going to do it? >> arianna, can i just say that -- and this is -- i guess i've been articu
or is it about lessening the deficit? because it doesn't really do a whole lot for the debt or deficit over ten years. >> well, it's about fairness, but it's also about what are the better options? given that the wealthy are really skating by these days. and so how do you collect more revenue from them? and all the various ideas about, well, you cap this deduction, and cap that deduction. there are not only political constituencies that will fight tooth and claw on every deducti...
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but you've got to be committed to some kind of real deficit reduction. and that's where, beyond the spending, being serious about entitlements, there's got to at least be some framework that says, look, we are going to reduce the size and the scope of government. and that's -- finding that pain point on both sides so it's not a lopsided deal will at least give republicans the room to argue, look, we can take this pain. we've won some concessions back, but we have to do this. >> that should be done in private and together. >> and again, though, the ratio between tax increases to spending cuts is a wide, wide gap. medicare and medicaid and social security together, taken with interest and the debt, that's consuming every dime that's coming into washington, d.c., right now. people talk about -- democrats have talked about for a decade, the bush tax cuts. they've driven up the national debt. fine. if that's the case, why is it that the president, as you've said earlier, is embracing 98% of the bush tax cuts? >> except that isn't true. >> of course it's not t
but you've got to be committed to some kind of real deficit reduction. and that's where, beyond the spending, being serious about entitlements, there's got to at least be some framework that says, look, we are going to reduce the size and the scope of government. and that's -- finding that pain point on both sides so it's not a lopsided deal will at least give republicans the room to argue, look, we can take this pain. we've won some concessions back, but we have to do this. >> that...
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that rate should go up on upper income americans to help close the deficit that we're facing right now. >> so we know that china obviously has a vested interest in our economy. it sounds to me by your description they prefer the president's plan. >> there was a lot of discussion about the president's plan. but they also just -- they want to see america make a decision. the world is watching what we're doing. and the one thing i did experience certainly in china was a lot of decisions get made and then investment is made. it's pretty much one right after the other. we tend to have a long debate about what we're going to do and get down to crunch time and then suddenly something happens. i think we can't afford to have that happen right now. as a lady said on the previous clip, just a store owner, make a decision. try to make it as soon as possible. let's not go into this holiday season with this level of uncertainty. business people, small, medium and large not knowing what's going on. the world is watching. >> yes. she said so very colorfully i might add. >> i didn't repeat that part.
that rate should go up on upper income americans to help close the deficit that we're facing right now. >> so we know that china obviously has a vested interest in our economy. it sounds to me by your description they prefer the president's plan. >> there was a lot of discussion about the president's plan. but they also just -- they want to see america make a decision. the world is watching what we're doing. and the one thing i did experience certainly in china was a lot of...
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the one approach says we've got this deficit problem, and we want to address it. the other is the norquist approach, which is really more about reducing government to its irreducible core. and that is an indiscriminate sort of slashing. that's the wrong path for the country. and that's the path we can't take. >> things have changed so much since i was there. you talk about discretionary versus mandatory. when i was there back in the '90s, you could actually go after discretionary spending and move towards a balanced budget. we're way past that now. you're talking about 11% for domestic discretionary spending. that means everything, outside of defense, outside of medicare, outside of medicaid, outside of social security. that's about 85% of the budget. >> and we just made some pretty deep cuts last summer. >> right. so when you have a party saying we're going to balance the budget by going after education, transportation, r&d, i mean, energy, you're basically going after your seed corn while china is doubling on education. china is doubling down on r&d. china is do
the one approach says we've got this deficit problem, and we want to address it. the other is the norquist approach, which is really more about reducing government to its irreducible core. and that is an indiscriminate sort of slashing. that's the wrong path for the country. and that's the path we can't take. >> things have changed so much since i was there. you talk about discretionary versus mandatory. when i was there back in the '90s, you could actually go after discretionary spending...